75ГДН-1-4 (30ГД-2)

[Александр Бокарёв]

und sagen Sie, wo sind ihre Qts =0,38 und Resonansfrequens = 25Hz? Traum- und Leben.

 

[Марков Николай]

Посмотреть вложение 11459

All clear. Just oaky suspensions. Change to polyurethane foam, knead, soak. 30 Hz will be a reality.

 

[Александр Бокарёв]

Резиновый подвес динамика обычно не поддается разминке и вернуть низкий резонанс без замены подвеса не получается. Из подвеса испаряются пластификаторы, резина становится жесткой.

 

[Dutch]

Подвесы на 75ГДН? Их есть у нас, хорошие, мягкие.. вот сейчас вычищаю диффузор 50ГДН-3, буду вместо поролона резину клеить.
Новые поролоновые жестче новых резиновых.

 

[Марков Николай]

у вас все еще есть подходящие подвески для колонок?

Recently I changed the suspensions to 75GDN-3. Received 25 Hz and 26.5 Hz, Q factor about 0.3, VAS about 130 liters. Suspensions are polyurethane foam, gray, according to unverified data, Polish.
75 ГДН-3

 

[ultimatemk6]

Recently I changed the suspensions to 75GDN-3. Received 25 Hz and 26.5 Hz, Q factor about 0.3, VAS about 130 liters. Suspensions are polyurethane foam, gray, according to unverified data, Polish.
75 ГДН-3

do you have them refoaming or reconen?
the data sounds almost perfect!

 

[Марков Николай]

do you have them refoaming or reconen?
the data sounds almost perfect!

The speakers are installed back into a friend's system.

 

[ultimatemk6]

The speakers are installed back into a friend's system.

I don't want to buy it.
if i want to do the same, what exactly did you do, just swapped the bead or also the spider?

 

[Марков Николай]

I don't want to buy it.
if i want to do the same, what exactly did you do, just swapped the bead or also the spider?

I only replaced the broken polyurethane foam suspension. The centering washer will outlive me

 

[ultimatemk6]

ok, i understand ..
that is a completely different speaker ..
i thought i could replace the rubber with foam and achieve these values
or is that possible?

 

[Марков Николай]

I think yes.
Try to compare the stiffness of the centering washer and the rubber suspension by bending with your finger. There are also oak washers. Did you measure the rest of the speakers?
I had 2 copies of the 75GDN-1L-4, rubber, with resonances of 25 and 30 Hz upon purchase. After a long break, the resonances rose to 38 and 32 Hz, respectively. After warming up and cutting out the sectors from the centering washer, the frequencies dropped to 27.5 and 29.5 Hz, respectively. The first has a rigid centering washer, the second has a rigid suspension!
There is a scatter of parameters from the factory.

 

[ultimatemk6]

I think yes.

now i feel like learning more about it
i can swap rubber for foam!
when i get the right parts:geek:

I think yes.
Try to compare the stiffness of the centering washer and the rubber suspension by bending with your finger. There are also oak washers. Did you measure the rest of the speakers?
I had 2 copies of the 75GDN-1L-4, rubber, with resonances of 25 and 30 Hz upon purchase. After a long break, the resonances rose to 38 and 32 Hz, respectively. After warming up and cutting out the sectors from the centering washer, the frequencies dropped to 27.5 and 29.5 Hz, respectively. The first has a rigid centering washer, the second has a rigid suspension!
There is a scatter of parameters from the factory.

no, i haven't done that yet, i will edit the rubber surrounds with balistol for the first few attempts.
this makes rubber a little more supple.

but i will have the others measured after the treatment.

I'm going to build a test case with around 100l and try to make it sound reasonably good.

if that works, i'll try to get new surrounds if letting it play for a longer period doesn't help.

I'll get in touch as soon as I find out more and need help with the new beads

best regards


I'll just put in a pipe, no slots, and the speaker will move to the right more. it is not possible for me to vote for slots at the moment

Hi
I have now made an 86l housing, unfortunately I have calculated myself ..
but I think that doesn't matter much or does it?


I measured an original and a new one at the listening position. the drawing shows the most important points, what does this say in comparison? black is the new reflex blue the old bandpass.

Я сейчас сделал корпус на 86 л, к сожалению сам подсчитал ..
но я думаю, что это не имеет большого значения или не так ли?

Я измерил оригинал и новый на месте прослушивания. рисунок показывает наиболее важные моменты, что это говорит о сравнении? черный это новый рефлекс синий старый бандпасс



всего хорошего

 

[Марков Николай]

There is a large discrepancy between graphs and tables. Probably the tables are the source? Then the graphs will be different.

 

[ultimatemk6]

the table at the bottom right is from the new subwoofer
Above the tables are from the main speaker
the graphic contrasts the new with the original
I didn't write the table from the original on it, it's here in front of me

liebe grüße

 

[Александр Бокарёв]

Измерения колонки нужно делать рядом с динамиком, очень близко к нему, а не в точке прослушивания.

 

[Марков Николай]

да, верно, но, в конце концов, я не хочу сидеть на месте слушателя перед динамиком

If I understand correctly, you have problems either with the location of the systems in the room, or with the measurement process.
It is necessary to measure the characteristic near the new bass-reflex system in the middle between the port and the loudspeaker in order to understand what the system itself emits and what the room has contributed. So we will see if the bass reflex is set correctly.
Here are the characteristics of the two systems together.

Does this characteristic correspond to what you hear?
It would be nice if you could draw an accurate floor plan of the room with dimensions, distances, listening position and systems, and windows and doors. Perhaps the location of the listener is unfortunate.
Here is the finished calculated version (example):

View topic here: Резонансы помещения.

 

[ultimatemk6]

I'm building just the second case for the other side, then I'll perform a near field measurement.
I will change the BR Port, so up to + 10dB could get out of the woofer.
I'm curious

The room is a catastrophe! That's why I want to set up as many woofers as possible to regulate it digitally.
The main speakers look exactly like this.
but in the sweetspot I get felt a clean sound .. felling ..
but not really real and clean loud data

A sketch of the room I will make ready for clarification.

Thank you for the effort and help! best regards

Forgot to mention.
The main amplifier was up -40db (-80- + 10) and the amplifier for the subwoofer to -9.
So I had the same level at 65Hz at the hearing point

 

[Марков Николай]

The room is a catastrophe! That's why I want to set up as many woofers as possible to regulate it digitally.
The main speakers look exactly like this.
but in the sweetspot I get felt a clean sound .. felling ..
but not really real and clean loud data

Draw your "indoor catastrophe". It may be enough to successfully position only two bass reflexes for good sound in the listening area.

 

[ultimatemk6]

If I do tomorrow, I almost finished the second.
Unfortunately, I can not change anything, so a catastrophe is the whole thing
I draw the dimensions and make some pictures then you understand what I mean.
I sit in a corner of a Ressonaz body

liebe grüße

Draw your "indoor catastrophe". It may be enough to successfully position only two bass reflexes for good sound in the listening area.

as you can see, there is not much that can be done .. i would have to tear out a wall and pull up a new one in a different place

 

[Александр Бокарёв]

Etwas so

 

[Марков Николай]

Das is meine Vinil-Meloman-Katze

Und das ist meine Melomanchildkröte.

Regarding your case. The room is spacious, with no doors to the corridor, which is good for the sound. The main longitudinal resonance is 33 Hz, the main transverse resonance is 48 Hz. Not bad. If I understood correctly, the listener's position cannot be changed - he is sitting in the middle of the sofa. One main system stands in the very corner, the second near the window. The first has the worst position in terms of exciting room resonances. But if the lowest frequencies will be reproduced by new phase inverters, this is not too important. Since the main systems and bass reflexes are spaced apart, it is highly desirable to provide the same distance from the listener to the centers of the subwoofers of the main systems and from the listener to the centers of the bass reflex speakers. In this case, there will be no problems in fusion of the speakers in the phase of the sound pressure. You have something like that. Determine the height at which your ears will be, and specify the position of the two finished bass reflexes in the room. The lower the crossover frequency with the main systems, the greater the difference in distance to the listener is acceptable. Maximum permissible phase difference between signals at a crossover frequency of 60 °. For example, for a section frequency of 200 Hz, this is equal to 29 cm. Everything described above applies to a path without time delays in channels, with second-order Linkwitz-Riley filters (quality factor 0.5). At the crossover frequency, they give -6dB, +/- 90 ° phase shift and ideal total amplitude and phase characteristics. Therefore, the bass reflex speaker should be turned on in antiphase to the subwoofer in the main system. If you want to increase the number of phase inverters to four, then this condition must be met for all four phase inverters. Otherwise, it will be necessary to introduce time delays into the path or manipulate the filter Q-factor, which is more complicated and worse.
However, you have not drawn the position of the listener and bass reflexes in the room! Also report the height of the room and the height of your ears when listening.

 

[LDS]

Скажите пожалуйста, катушка у 75 ГДН на каком каркасе намотана, медь или бумага?

Прислали фото 30ГД-1-25, там медь:

В то же время пишут, что у 75 ГДН так же медь:

 

[Meshin]

Бумага на каркасе катушки только у прародителя. 8ГД-1-25 "RRR". У всех остальных его дочек и сыночков: 30 ГД-ХХ и 75 ГДН-ХХ каркас медный. Лишь в зависимости от применяемого провода для намотки катушки 0,315...0,355 по меди, менялось её Re. Высота намотки оставалась неизменной и равной 22,0 мм.

 

[Марков Николай]

Скажите пожалуйста, катушка у 75 ГДН на каком каркасе намотана, медь или бумага?

Прислали фото 30ГД-1-25, там медь:
Посмотреть вложение 15888
В то же время пишут, что у 75 ГДН так же медь:
Посмотреть вложение 15889

У 75ГДН-1 и 75ГДН-3 медь. Красивая, аж красная, советская)

Посмотреть вложение 11823Посмотреть вложение 11824Посмотреть вложение 11825Посмотреть вложение 11826Посмотреть вложение 11828

as you can see, there is not much that can be done .. i would have to tear out a wall and pull up a new one in a different place

Пропал наш немецкий друг...

 

[Святослав_]

Хороший был вариант 75ГДН-1 с надёжным, несбиваемым креплением МС к раме.

 

[Сергей Михайлович]

Бумага на каркасе катушки только у прародителя. 8ГД-1-25 "RRR". У всех остальных его дочек и сыночков: 30 ГД-ХХ и 75 ГДН-ХХ каркас медный.

Вы забыли про 25ГД-41, 25ГД-42, 50ГДН3-4, они как бы то же "детишки" 8гд-1-25, только каркасы катушек у них алюминиевые.

 

[Ivane]

Всем привет. Ребята, не извращайтесь, не нужно ничего переделывать в этом динамике, его не дураки разрабатывали в свое время. Да, подвижка действительно тяжелая, он не верх совершенства, тем более по современным меркам, но зато он недорогой и не дефицитный. Ему просто нужен мощный усилок с высоким коэфициентом демпфирования (это важно) соответственно провод потолще (не меньше 2,5 кв. мм) никаких пассивных кроссоверов в его цепи быть не должно и обьем ящика примерно 65л, тогда будет четкий, глубокий бас без бубнежа и уханья как в закрытом ящике так и в фазоинверторе. Правда динамик надо брать 75гдн1-8.

 

[Александр Бокарёв]

Объясните насчет пассивных кроссоверов, почему нельзя. А то я в растерянности, жизнь прожита зря....

 

[Ivane]

Жизнь не прожита зря, пассивные кроссоверы лучше не применять именно с этим дином, хотя могу сказать что после перехода на биампинг это был самый большой скачок в повышении качества звука в целом. Я не просто так добавил что нужен высокий демпинг фактор от усилка, ток надо направить к звуковой катушке с максимально наименьшими потерями, любой пассивный фильтр имеет сопротивление, вот как раз на катушке фнч и теряются драгоценные демпфирующие свойства усилка, поэтому динамик с 8омной звуковой катушкой лучше будет контролироваться усилителем. В идеале и провод должен быть как можно короче (на этих динамиках лучше собирать активный саб)

 

[Александр Бокарёв]

Доложу вам, что колонка на базе 30ГД-2 с обычным НЧ фильтром на катухе с цобелем в ящике 65 литров прекрасно звучала от крохотных мощностью усилителей , с басом все нормально.
Хотя, при возможности применить мощный транзисторник - почему бы и не применить.
ПС. Омичей прибывает. Саня Лукин - великий колонкостроевец - уже здесь.